Further Unschooling Thoughts
Hi again!
Some of the comments from my last post have got me thinking a little more (just when I had all the answers, too!) about the place of obedience in education/life. So here are more thoughts!
I tend to think that obedience is of two sorts - obedience out of fear, and the free assent of the will. Both types are common in the world (possibly even necessary - more thoughts on that perhaps in a later post), but the second is definitely the higher and more useful obedience.
An example of the two (which also provides an illustration of the place of obedience through fear) would be in repentance. One can either repent out of fear of punishment, or because one has offended somebody dear to one and is thus sincerely sorry. People being people, a lot of repentance comes from the first - this is, of course, a feature of religion, and is not a bad thing (repentance is good regardless of its source!). But, as Catholic theology recognises by terming the second sort "perfect contrition", it is a higher and better thing to repent simply because one has done wrong, regardless of the prospect or otherwise of punishment.
After that little digression (lol), back to obedience.
I think the aim of education - in this area - ought to be to gain the willing assent of children to the precepts and instructions of their parents. Obviously, this is a long-term goal that is only achievable when children are mature (it's almost certainly unreasonable to expect a 3-year-old to do this), but long-term goals must inform our short-term actions.
So. Parents should seek to model virtues, and respect, in order to lead by example rather than fear. If they are successful in this, their children will (probably!) recognise their parents' wisdom/experience and "good" life - which then pre-disposes them to listen to parents. Also, if parents have built this sort of relationship by displaying these qualities, children will be inclined to respect their parents' words without necessarily needing to have them explained and justified - if I think my parents are, on the whole, reasonable people with a modicum of wisdom, I am much less likely to dismiss what they say out of hand. Instead, I will accord it considerable weight in my thinking.
Of course, this doesn't mean that children will always do as their parents say; but then, nobody ever follows anyone else completely. (I think...) But it does mean that parents have some input with their adult children, and it means that both parties can enjoy a positive, respectful relationship.
Were the obedience to be based on fear, it would (I'd suggest) pass away as the fear passed away. For example, parents can't really enforce very much on teenage children - if things really deteriorate, the children do have the legal right to leave home - so if the relationship has been built upon the parents' ability to punish and coerce the child, their influence is unlikely to endure beyond childhood.
So, attempting to tie all this back together again, I would say that obedience should be sought through respect/love for the person requiring the obedience, not through the fear of any punishments they may inflict. This then requires the person seeking the obedience to display respect, wisdom, and understanding in their relations with the other party.
(This, of course, with the proviso that I am essentially discussing obedience among adults or between parents and older children. The obedient party must have the maturity to think consider their actions in advance, before this sort of obedience becomes possible.)
I hope this makes sense!
L
Some of the comments from my last post have got me thinking a little more (just when I had all the answers, too!) about the place of obedience in education/life. So here are more thoughts!
I tend to think that obedience is of two sorts - obedience out of fear, and the free assent of the will. Both types are common in the world (possibly even necessary - more thoughts on that perhaps in a later post), but the second is definitely the higher and more useful obedience.
An example of the two (which also provides an illustration of the place of obedience through fear) would be in repentance. One can either repent out of fear of punishment, or because one has offended somebody dear to one and is thus sincerely sorry. People being people, a lot of repentance comes from the first - this is, of course, a feature of religion, and is not a bad thing (repentance is good regardless of its source!). But, as Catholic theology recognises by terming the second sort "perfect contrition", it is a higher and better thing to repent simply because one has done wrong, regardless of the prospect or otherwise of punishment.
After that little digression (lol), back to obedience.
I think the aim of education - in this area - ought to be to gain the willing assent of children to the precepts and instructions of their parents. Obviously, this is a long-term goal that is only achievable when children are mature (it's almost certainly unreasonable to expect a 3-year-old to do this), but long-term goals must inform our short-term actions.
So. Parents should seek to model virtues, and respect, in order to lead by example rather than fear. If they are successful in this, their children will (probably!) recognise their parents' wisdom/experience and "good" life - which then pre-disposes them to listen to parents. Also, if parents have built this sort of relationship by displaying these qualities, children will be inclined to respect their parents' words without necessarily needing to have them explained and justified - if I think my parents are, on the whole, reasonable people with a modicum of wisdom, I am much less likely to dismiss what they say out of hand. Instead, I will accord it considerable weight in my thinking.
Of course, this doesn't mean that children will always do as their parents say; but then, nobody ever follows anyone else completely. (I think...) But it does mean that parents have some input with their adult children, and it means that both parties can enjoy a positive, respectful relationship.
Were the obedience to be based on fear, it would (I'd suggest) pass away as the fear passed away. For example, parents can't really enforce very much on teenage children - if things really deteriorate, the children do have the legal right to leave home - so if the relationship has been built upon the parents' ability to punish and coerce the child, their influence is unlikely to endure beyond childhood.
So, attempting to tie all this back together again, I would say that obedience should be sought through respect/love for the person requiring the obedience, not through the fear of any punishments they may inflict. This then requires the person seeking the obedience to display respect, wisdom, and understanding in their relations with the other party.
(This, of course, with the proviso that I am essentially discussing obedience among adults or between parents and older children. The obedient party must have the maturity to think consider their actions in advance, before this sort of obedience becomes possible.)
I hope this makes sense!
L
posted by Luke at 5:03 PM
4 Comments:
Perfect sense. I wish life were as simple as theory! lol!
Leonie/Mum
Luke,
Great post! I found myself thinking more about discipline as well, and it led me back to virtues.
Isn't it interesting how the virtues really are the cornerstone of life--- particularly in relationships?
In the Markos/Lewis lectures I'm listening to, Markos talked about how all societies (pagan, etc) all had one thing in common- they respected people in their tribes who were honest and virutous. (I guess even in the cannbilist tribes, they still didn't want to follow liars, cowards, etc.) Respect is important.
As you said, the mutal respect between parent and child can go a long way toward fostering obidience- even those times when the child doesn't understand why they are asked to be doing what they are asked to do.. they trust the parent if that relationship is there.
You are going to make a great dad one day.. :-)
great luke! just as good as the last posts! can't wait till' you post more!
Anthony
Hi Luke,
Howzit going?
Are you (ever) going to work on your blog? lol! I know you have computer troubles right now...
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